It’s time that we start acting our age in Hip Hop. Many think that hip hop is a youthful thing, which in some aspect it is. We need the new blood to keep things going but the elders need to remain active to pass the baton so too speak. Hip hop is a reflection of our community and right now the image doesn’t look too good but 9th Wonder has a suggestion on where to start. Check out the rhyme and reason with the Dream Merchant as he chops up game with Scheme Magazine.

Scheme: How did you come up with the name 9th Wonder?

9th: Man really, I was just going through a bunch of names and 9th sounded the best. I needed something that was fresh that didn’t sound like a rappers name, that was the biggest thing for me. It didn’t sound like a rappers name and it could be shortened to 9th, or 9th Wondrah and several other options. I wrote out a bunch of names and it just stuck with me.

Scheme: Have you ever tried your hand at rhyming?

9th: No

Scheme: Never went the Timbaland route or Swizz Beats?

9th: No, that ain’t in my make up G, that’s something that has to be part of you. There’s something in you that has to be up for that and I’m not up for no rapping cuz.

Scheme: I hear that, that’s why I do what I do, I leave it to the people that have the talent to do it and I’m just a fan.

9th: You know what, that’s the problem with the rap game today; people don’t want to leave it up to the people that can do it.

Scheme: I’m just a fan.

9th: Exactly! If your gonna rhyme then rhyme. If you’re gonna make beats then make beats, for real.

Scheme: Let’s get into your professor gig. You’re teaching a class at North Carolina Central University right?

9th: Yessur

Scheme: What’s your syllabus look like for that, how do you conduct that class?

9th: Man, the syllabus for that class covers 1973 – 1997 hip hop. We start all the way at the beginning and take it to 1997 when things really started to shift to a bit of a down point. We do this so that the kids that are 18 years old can go back and learn about hip hop, because radio is not doing a good job of doing it; the media is not doing a good job of doing it with the exception of VH1 “And Ya Don’t Stop”. You don’t know where you are going if you don’t know where you came from. Ain’t nobody gonna do it but us so we have to do it right.

Scheme: With your students that are taking this class are you finding that they have no knowledge of the earlier years of rap from 1973 to say 1986 or are they coming in with some foundation of understanding?

9th: Well how old are you?

Scheme: 27

9th: Okay, I’m 32 so we have the advantage of already being exposed to some of these things, we grew up with them. Some of our favorite things are growing old. Coming to America is going to be 20 years old, Menace to Society is a 14 year old movie, Juice is a 16 year old movie, and these are movies that we love. So you have to start and think if Juice is 16 years old and Menace to Society is 14 years old and “Lyte as a Rock” is a 20 year old record, what can these things possibly mean to an 18 year old? These things are completely out of their generational grasp but it’s not their fault. I was 13 in 1988, The Commodores didn’t mean jack to me, know what I’m saying? I did grow to learn to understand and appreciate it but at the time I didn’t want to hear “Easy like Sunday Morning” when I was 13, I didn’t want to hear that! With kids that are 18 we’ll be like “Oh yeah, you want some of that Gangstarr” and they’re like, “No I don’t” because it’s out of their time frame, they have no concept of it until we teach it to them. It’s unfair for us to expect them to already know this stuff; it’s up to us to teach it to them. We can’t force it down their throats, we need to teach them. How can we expect a 16 or 17 year old kid to know “Bonita Applebaum”? Where would they hear it? You can’t say the radio.

Scheme: Definitely not, maybe once in a while on MTV Jams Throwbacks.

9th: Maybe, and that’s a strong maybe duke. That’s a strong maybe for a 16 year old to be exposed to “Mass Appeal” by the media.

Scheme: Now what’s the reaction you are getting from your student when you first introduce them to a “Bonita Applebaum” or a “Mass Appeal”? Are they bobbing their heads, are their eyes lighting up or are they not digging it?

9th: Kinda, but you see we build up to it. We progress them, they don’t get to “Mass Appeal” until like week 9 or 10 so they are somewhat prepared. We show the progressions of hip hop music.

Scheme: So this is kind of like the True School parties that you do right?

9th: The True School parties that I do are for people 26 and up!

Scheme: Yeah, so you’re giving us the flip slide of your class, we are already exposed to that music we just have a tough time finding it at one venue or featured on one musical outlet on a consistent basis.

9th: Right!!

Scheme: How has that been going?

9th: It’s been going great! It’s been going super because our age range is hungry for this.

Scheme: Monie Love is a partner in these parties right?

9th: Yeah, Monie Love, DJ Cuzzin B, Jay Clipp, the V.P. of True School Dr. Vincent Clark. See True School only has two musicians, one rapper and one producer and that’s me and Monie. Everyone else involved are career people and professionals. Like I said we have a rapper, a producer, a manager at a Call Center, a person who works in communications at NPR, a Financial Analyst, a Dentist, and a Statician for the U.S. Government. Hip hop has fans in all walks of life, in and throughout corporate America and that is the message we are trying to get across to other people in corporate America like “Hey, you like Black Moon? So do we, come join us”.

Scheme: So you’re trying to take it past the break room conversations during the lunch break and give a full venue…

9th: You know what I’m saying! They wanna do the lil lunch break hour they play on the radio; get out of here, that’s weak! I know I can’t get mad at that because the urban radio isn’t for me; urban radio is for my son. A lot of our artists ask if they are gonna get their records played, the answer is if it doesn’t have a dance with it then no you won’t. A majority of records now are snap records. What radio station is going to play five snap records and then turnaround and play “The Blast” man? As a DJ and knowing music; that pisses me off because you can’t do that man it just doesn’t fit. Until we get our own radio station we‘ll be stuck in this no man’s land.

Scheme: Now is that a vision with True School, to have your own radio show or your own satellite radio station?

9th: Yessur! Satellite radio is a situation like cell phones in 1991, everybody doesn’t have it. We need terrestrial radio with a serious, serious, concise playlist. That way we can play the music, we can love the music from our generation. If something comes out that can fit that, it can be added. In other words if De La [Soul] wanted to come out with another album, this is the place they can put it out at, it would be a place for them to reconnect with De La fans. Can you imagine me and Monie chopping it up with De La during an interview and then we just go through a playlist of their songs, playing “Buddy”, “Me, Myself and I”, “Ring, Ring, Ring” and then drop joints from the new album. We would connect them to their fans like no other station is doing. This is what we need as a genre of music man, we have the music for it we just don’t have the forum for it.

Scheme: Now where can people go to get the latest information on the True School movement?

9th: You can go to www.trueschoolcorp.com

“Kids get these programs, they stay off the streets and in their rooms and become creative, and we really need that. The drawback to that is that everybody is not hot, and we let too many people who are not talented fall through the cracks. No matter where your from and what type of music you make we have too many garbage acts sliding through the cracks, too many.”

Scheme: Going into what we discussed earlier in the conversation regarding everyone is not meant to be a producer and everyone is not meant to be a rapper; the technology today has really removed the barrier to whereas if you have a $1,000 you can start a low budget studio and start thinking you are nice. What do you think about that?

9th: I like the fact that with these computer based programs, a kid can get into this as either a hobby or as a profession. These big machines cost a lot man so making these programs affordable can help to make a kid creative and have fun without being in the streets and hurting somebody, know what I’m saying? Kids get these programs, they stay off the streets and in their rooms and become creative, and we really need that. The drawback to that is that everybody is not hot, and we let too many people who are not talented fall through the cracks. No matter where your from and what type of music you make we have too many garbage acts sliding through the cracks, too many. This ain’t the romper room, this is hip hop man. If it isn’t hot, it isn’t hot and just because something sells a million ring tones dude doesn’t mean you made something that will transcend generations. You were smoking for the time; cool, you got your paper up and I’m not mad at that get your money but at the end of the day are you making something that will stand the test of time? We need to start being honest with ourselves and others. We need to have musicians that will uphold the integrity of black music and be able to make money at the same time. For some reason people don’t want to be dedicated to doing that, they just want to “get their paper up”. Imagine if our musical predecessors from Ella Fitzgerald down to De La Soul had that same mentality? They knew there is something more to it than just money and that is upholding black music. Like I said it doesn’t matter where you are from, from the South Bronx to the deepest parts of the Nolia there is garbage coming out because we are not being honest with each other and we are not upholding black music. It’s not an East/West/North/South thing or a commercial vs. underground thing because there are a ton in each category that are garbage. I don’t just make music, man I study it. I know what music is and what music is not. If we are going to make our music last generations we need to step it up and be serious about our craft.

Scheme: So who do you think in the past five years, regardless of genre has done a good job at upholding the integrity of black music?

9th: Kanye West, Ludacris, T.I., Common, Jay (Jay-Z) of course to name a few because these people make music. They didn’t have to change their styles to make money and they make real music. Like Puffy said once, who stole the soul? These artist are trying to keep the soul in it. Ne-Yo upholds black music. People may not get with it, cats may say he’s not this and not that but “Because of You” was the jam dawg, I don’t care what nobody says. That’s a jam that upholds the music. Remember Samuel L. Jackson’s character Senor Love Daddy the DJ, in DO THE RIGHT THING? Remember when he was doing the “We Love” radio roll call and started naming artist? If that character tried that today he couldn’t name anybody! He was yelling out Ella Fitzgerald, Parliament Funkadelic, he even named a few rappers like Biz Markie, De La Soul, Public Enemy. It’s not a rap or R&B thing; it is a good or bad thing. We need to save black music cause right now n*ggas ain’t doing it man.

“We need to tell people straight up that something is not hot and make them go back to the lab. Just because you sale records don’t mean it is good music. McDonalds has over a billion served, that doesn’t mean that it is good for you, that food will kill ya.”

Scheme: So where do we start to right the ship and stop these “garbage” artists from slipping through the cracks?

9th: We need a veto system in place for real. Tell people no when shit is whack. There use to be a time when people would hear someone’s album, get inspired and go back and erase their whole album, and record another one. You don’t get that anymore because people are too concerned about budgets and marketing and meeting timelines and put the most important aspect; the music, last. We need to tell people straight up that something is not hot and make them go back to the lab. Just because you sale records don’t mean it is good music. McDonalds has over a billion served, that doesn’t mean that it is good for you, that food will kill ya.

Scheme: When you’re in your DJ mode, how do you feel about DJ’s that are starting out as DJ’s and they are literally learning using Serrato and different programs like that without touching vinyl?

9th: Some people didn’t grow up on vinyl man; I didn’t grow up on vinyl. Some kids grow up in neighborhoods where every kid on the block had turntables; I didn’t have that in the south so I didn’t have that same attachment to vinyl. It doesn’t mean much to me because I have more feeling for the music than half the dudes with turntables and large vinyl collections, so all of that doesn’t mean much too me. I’ve only been DJing for six years but I have an undeniable feeling for the music and that’s all that is important in my opinion.

Scheme: So now moving over to your producer side, what do you think differentiates a producer from a beatmaker and do you think either has an advantage over the other.

9th: A beatmaker just makes a beat and gives it to the artist; they don’t do anything for that record after that point. A producer is gonna work with the artist and help them craft the song, mesh the lyrics and the beat together and help develop an approach. It really depends on what you like. The good part to being a beatmaker is that you don’t get tied up with one song, because you are not attached to it. You can turn out a large amount of beats and shop them and leave the artist to figure it out. The advantage to being a producer is that you have a hand in the final product; you get into the fun and work with the artist instead of just selling them a product and bouncing. It really depends on your personality.

Scheme: Do you find a difference in the work flow when you’re working with different artist. I mean you have worked with various artist such as Little Brother, Skyzoo, Murs, Jay-Z to Destiny Child and Mary J. Blige just to name a few. Do you approach your music differently when doing “hip hop” versus “R&B”?

9th: No and this goes back to the other question, what separates Skyzoo from Mary J. Blige? It’s money and exposure, but when you’re a producer you approach each situation the same and tailor it to that artist and not just to their status. A good producer can do that, because regardless of the artist the quality of the music should always remain the same.

Scheme: Being a father, what’s your reaction to your kids maybe liking songs on the radio that you don’t necessarily agree with? Some songs you just don’t like but others you don’t agree with because of the content, how do you deal with it?

9th: My kids don’t listen to the radio.

Scheme: So how does it go down in your household with your children?

9th: For the most part my kids listen to what I listen to; we don’t listen to urban radio really in my household. You have to look at what I am playing in my household, New Edition, Gap Band, A Tribe Called Quest, Curtis Mayfield, other artist that I sample and beats that I do, De La Soul, SOS Band. Do I have a problem with my kids repeating any of the music that I listen to? Nope! We don’t do snap music in my house and we don’t listen to urban radio. I’m my own personal DJ; I don’t need someone else to play music for us.

Scheme: I have to imagine that your kids are ahead of the curve when they get around their friends and it comes to knowing music and appreciating good music. Do they notice the difference?

9th: Well when my kids get around their friends they are exposed to more urban radio but it’s not a lot. I mean my daughter does the “my lip gloss is popping, my lip gloss is cool” which is harmless really. Even in those situations, I know that the parents of their friends are very responsible and like minded and don’t allow their kids to listen too much of the urban radio either. My house is pretty much the same, I mean my wife likes Justin Timberlake, and he’s all right, nothing wrong with that. She won’t be listening to T-Pain though, we’re grown. That’s no disrespect to Mr. Tallahassee Pain but he makes music for the younger crowd.

Scheme: Throughout your music career, have you always gotten a lot of support from your family and friends or was it something that you had to earn?

9th: Oh yeah, I had to earn it like almost everyone else does. Until you earn it, they view it as just “your music thang”.

Scheme: At what point did it go from being your music “thang” to people realizing you were serious and that this was your occupation?

9th: When I got my first check! You have to understand; very few people have the ability to appreciate good music for what it is and recognize that. A large portion of the general public needs TV and other media outlets to draw attention to the music. Once people start seeing your face on TV and in magazines or on websites then they start to recognize your talent. You can go up to people and say “Yeah man that’s 9th Wonder, he’s done joints for Jay-Z, Destiny’s Child, Eryka Badu, Mary J. Blige” and you know what type of response they’ll get? The obligatory “oh word”…. I used to get that a lot, I still get that or even the “oh okay” response. Man you never know what eight seconds from Fade to Black (Jay-Z documentary) can do for you. I had eight seconds in that movie, man I had so many people calling me and calling up my friends that have been supporting me. It went from “Oh word” to “hey man didn’t you say that 9th Wonder was your people?”

Scheme: So what did you start to think once you saw that happening?

9th: Man it really just let’s you know who is who and what everything is. It was the opportunity for my boys to hit them back with the “I told ya”. If there is one thing a black person doesn’t like brah, it’s the dreaded “I told ya”. My boys would be like “I tried to tell you the nigga was hot but you didn’t want to listen” and they hit you with the “I know you said it man, but nah I didn’t know you knowmasayin?” Naw jack, I don’t know what your saying. You get that a lot and you can either play into it or just brush it off your shoulders. Some people can’t even help themselves, they are just followers.

Scheme: Let’s talk a little bit about Dream Merchant Vol. 2, is that still slated for October 9th?

9th: Yessur, we have the 9th on the 9th campaign starting up.

Scheme: Now that’s on Six Holes Records right?

9th: Good ole Six Hole, yessur!

Scheme: What should the fans expect from this album, what can we look forward to?

9th: Just that Boom Bap original rap man! We are giving them good music, point blank.

Scheme: Okay, now is the Wonder Years album still in the works as well?

9th: Yes, that’s my hip hop parent’s record, that’s a record that even parents can listen to and really dig. With Dream Merchant, there are a lot of choice words being used so it’s not really for the older crowd. You can listen to Wonder Years in the car with your kids in the back seat.

Scheme: Now Wonder Years is going through your label deal at Asylum, the It’s a Wonderful World label?

9th: Yessur

Scheme: How has that whole situation been?

9th: It’s been good man. They believe in me enough to put out records that I believe in and that I believe we have a market for. We all understand that it’s gonna be a slow grind and it might take a while but you know you win if you sale 200,000 on an independent as opposed to it being a failure on a major. I think Dream Merchant is going to do some very big things, it has gotten some great feedback and we already have a core audience for it so I think it’s gonna do some numbers.

Scheme: Moving outside of music, it seems as if you are a big movie fan. What other hobbies or interest do you have outside of music which is no longer just a hobby, but your occupation?

9th: Well definitely the movies man, I love the entertainment. I like to travel a lot as well. I have the pleasure of doing something I love for a living, what I do for a living is fun so it’s never just work. Outside of music and my family I have a great great great admiration for my friends. I have friends from High School that we just call ourselves “The Crew”, some of them I’ve known since I was 11 years old. They are all so proud of me but I am really proud of each of them as well. I’m proud to have a friend that’s an attorney, I have a friend that is a Vice Chairman of Biology at UCLA, I am very proud of my friends accomplishments in life. I love my friends and enjoy any time we can get together.

Scheme: I think I read a little about “The Crew” on your Myspace page, I saw your list of greatest R&B albums and you guys compiled a hell of a list, but I do have to say I think you missed one great album, and that’s Voodoo by D’Angelo.

9th: See I knew it, I told them. That’s what’s wrong with black people, we don’t like to read!! We said the greatest albums from 85’- 95’ not 85’- 99’. I knew it, I knew it!

Scheme: Now how did that whole process go, were you guys arguing back and forth or was it a pretty calm and fun experience?

9th: No, when my friends get together, we always discuss things and dissect it. We love to discuss the state of black music all the time and the state of black people, that’s our conversation. The conversation for this came up when we were talking about the state of R&B and then we just started to name albums. The criterion was at least five bangin songs on the album or at least one single that was so monumental that it was undeniable.

“If your 35, leave the snap dancing alone. If your 30 don’t Superman Dat Hoe, that music and those dances are not even made for you so don’t do them, start acting your age.”

Scheme: How influential were your college years to the music you like and create now? Also, which time period in music when you were growing up was the most influential on you and your musical taste and production style?

9th: The Native Tongue era man, absolutely! They managed to attach the sounds of the 70’s and the 80’s and make a sound that defined the 90’s. The Native Tongues connected the dots for me. The Peoples Instinctive Travels came out in 89’ and I was a freshman in high school. To be an adolescent during these times, it was a blessing man. To be in high school from fall of 89’ to June of 93’ and have all of that music was amazing, because these are usually the times when people really start to get into the music. The albums that came out during my high school years, people will be like “oh my god, you lucky dog!” And I think those are years that influenced me the most. The Native Tongues where out, Dr. Dre’s The Chronic was out, Whut!?!The Album was out Two EPMD albums, Digable Planets album, two LL Cool J albums came out, and the list just keeps going on and on. Then you could push it up to my freshman year of college, man you got Doggystlye, Enta Da Stage, Midnight Marauders, Enter the 36 Chambers, man my 9th grade to my freshman year in college was smoking with albums, smoking! Some of the best albums we have ever seen in rap music, period!

“If they ever put out Hip Hop is Dead on wax, I will remix it in three days! They better not do it, three days it would be done!”

Scheme: Definitely a great moment in Hip Hop, those years were powerful! Going back to your friends and your discussions on the state of the black community overall, what do you think is the starting point to right the ship so to speak? I know we can’t correct it all but what do you think is the starting point as a people?

9th: Man, first of all people need to start acting their age. If your 35, leave the snap dancing alone. If your 30 don’t Superman Dat Hoe, that music and those dances are not even made for you so don’t do them, start acting your age. That is a great start right there. Secondly, we need to stand up for ourselves, just like the saying goes if you don’t stand for something you will fall for anything. We have to start acknowledging that things need to change and work towards it. Some people may say this sounds stuck up, man its not that but these things are not acceptable. We have NFL players acting up and people want to come to their defense and say it’s because they are black, no it’s not acceptable dawg. Making it rain $84,000 is not acceptable if your Black, White, Asian whatever. We live in America and we have laws jack, you can’t just make it rain with $84 grand!!! It’s not acceptable, that’s not right. We are acting like we don’t have any standards anymore. We need to start there.

Scheme: I believe your working on another project with Murs how’s that going?

9th: Yeah, I’m working on albums with Murs and Buckshot and the Murs album is done. I’m excited with both and we are in the works of doing a 9th Wonder All Star tour and it will be Murs, Jean Grae, Buckshot, and Skyzoo.

Scheme: That’s hot, I’ll be in attendance! How did each one of those projects come about, was it you reaching out to them, vice versa or just through networking?

9th: I met Jean Grae on a tour during a Christmas time one year and we hooked up from there. I met Murs through my man who works up at ABB records, I met Buckshot through Dru Ha, I met Dru Ha through Evil Dee and I met Evil Dee through Mr. Walt. Skyzoo I met through my man Chaundon, really just by knowing people.

Scheme: God’s Stepson, do you think you will ever remix another album the way you did that one?

9th: If they ever put out Hip Hop is Dead on wax, I will remix it in three days! They better not do it, three days it would be done!

Scheme: Damn, then I’m gonna have to push them to do it because I need that in my life!
Is there that one beat that someone else made that just made you sit back and think “Damn, I wish I made that beat”? Or maybe just in complete awe of the beat.

9th: Pete Rock “Tru Master”, for Premier it is “A Million and One Questions”, oh my god! For Dilla it would be off of The Shining, “E=MC2”, awww man that’s so unfair!! For Dr. Dre “In Da Club” man! (Starts imitating the beat) aww man that record was amazing. For Kanye it would be … and these are the beats that man I might have heard it the way they heard it but at the same time when you create those master pieces, you hear it differently. Like on “Tru Master” you have to be on another level to hear it the way he was hearing it to make that beat. For Kanye it’s um the (9th starts to sing) “I’ll be late for that”

Scheme: Oh yeah, that Kanye song is crazy, that has taken me through many a train rides on repeat!

9th: You know what I’m saying, I’ll be late for that! For Rza it is “Triumph”, for Just Blaze it was “Hovie Baby”, aggghhhh that was sick!

Scheme: On the same note, is there that beat that you’ve heard and it’s hot but at the same time your like damn, if they just extended this beat line or chop this piece up or layered this part that it would be an elite beat or just completed. In your mind it was one step away from perfection.

9th: Not really because with me it’s either good or it sucks. They either did what they had to do or it’s so bad that it can’t be saved.

Scheme: Now have you ever heard a beat where you heard the original beat but for some reason whether it was samples getting cleared or they just chose another beat but by the time it came out to the public it was changed and you liked the original better? For me personally I heard the original “I Got a Story to Tell” by Biggie. I was sitting there listening to college radio around 11 at night with my finger on the record button back when you needed to tape joints off the radio. So I heard this original one and it was crazy, then when the album came out they had to change it because of sample clearances and it changed the whole song for me, I really don’t like it as much.

9th: The original “Thought at Work” by The Roots, ohh boy that was crazy! Then the original “Mic Check” by Juelz Santana, the one that is out now is okay but they changed that like a mutha and the original was crazy!

Scheme: Let’s talk about the fans today! I don’t think that fans know how to stay in their place nowadays and be fans, they want to play producer, manager, A&R, Director of Marketing, MC etc and they do everything except enjoy the music.

9th: You’re right; they want to read soundscans instead of liner notes. They want to be A&R’s and everything else I know where you’re going.

Scheme: Do you like fans that are just fans or do you find that nearly everyone wants to be part of the industry some how?

9th: I liked the times when fans were just fans and enjoyed the music. We already have A&R’s and business managers and all of that. Stick to your role because we do this for the fans, not for the A&R etc. I love fans that are fans, lets un-blur the lines. We have internet thugs on Myspace who are the same people in the back of your concert against that wall that go home to their parent’s house after the show. I’m talking about live with your parents; they still do your laundry and drive you to school living with your parents. The internet thugs are usually children that live at home and their parents still take care of them and they are still in junior high and high school. They are worried about sound scan numbers when they need to worry about their algebra homework.

Scheme: Last thing, I read somewhere that you once pawned a Yamaha PSS 480, was it worth it?

9th: I pawned it for a babe cuz. No, it wasn’t. Well, hindsight is 20/20 man and it is worth it from the stand point that I can tell that story from where I am now. If I wasn’t doing what I’m doing now it wouldn’t be worth it but with where I am now, it can make a good story to tell on Oprah.

9th Wonder represents what is right with hip hop and black music overall. Let’s be leaders and not followers and we can better fight against the criticism we receive from mass media. Let’s grow with our music and culture and not try to fit in by being younger, after all these are our own Wonder Years, keep Scheming ya’ll!