With three weeks to go before the world premier of his second film, “White Lies, Black Sheep”, at the Toronto International Film Festival, New York City’s own James Spooner is full of anticipation and rightfully so. The director of the critically acclaimed documentary “Afro Punk (2003), has recently relocated to Los Angeles, CA in order to change pace and work on his second film. Spooner, 31, a product of NYC’s eclectic nightlife scene, has done it all from sculpting, spinning and promoting records, to eventually deciding to cinematically depict the rock music scene in the city that helped to mold his insightful, raw cinematic offerings. His debut film “Afro Punk” has been shown in over 50-plus film festivals, garnering honors such as an Official Selection at the Toronto International Film Festival, an Audience Award at the Black Harvest International Film and Video Festival, an award for Excellence in Documentary Filmmaking at the Roxbury Film Festival and an award for Best Documentary at the International Jamerican Film and Music Festival. The film garnered such acclaim that the Brooklyn Academy of Music (BAM) has provided Spooner a platform to stage the Afro Punk Festival (NYC), which is will see its fourth year next summer.

He recently sat down for a candid discussion about race and the significant role it has played in his life, the role it plays in his filmmaking and what he would like people to learn from watching his films. Providing us with an honest glimpse of “his world” we learn more about why he feels it is his calling to uplift the voices of his people on celluloid.

Scheme: For our public - and I know a lot of people are familiar with “Afro Punk”- but for those who may not be that familiar with your first piece, could you describe the inspiration behind it and what prompted you to put that out there for people to take note of?
James Spooner: Sure! Basically “Afro Punk” started off as a movie, a documentary, about the experience of being Black person who lives in a primarily white community; in this case specifically, the punk scene. It’s obviously become a metaphor for a lot of other things for a lot of different kinds of people.

I remember when I first kind of started talking about it and this one guy, I can’t even remember who it was but I wish I did now so could say “ha ha”. I remember him being like, “well, it sounds interesting, but I don’t know who would be interested in it other than Black punk rockers, which there aren’t many, so I don’t know why we’re bothering.” Ya know? (laughs)

Scheme: Yeah.
JS: It’s like, “ahhh, whatever man.” So I just did it and it turned out that it was something that a lot of people got. In so many ways I think it just represents the “other” Black experience the one that we don’t see represented in the media.

So, from making that movie, we started doing shows with the Community Board and Myspace and all of these other venues, coupled with the screenings and stuff…It’s just become this…some people might say it’s like a “movement”, I don’t know… It’s become this community of people who think that the movie “represents” in terms of that other Black experience, with a feeling that they connect to. It’s definitely taken on a life bigger than the film itself.

Scheme: Did you expect it to take on that sort of “other life” or was it something you just wanted to do..?
JS: No, I really thought that it was gonna be like I’d just show it once in LA, a couple of times in New York and it would be a wrap, ya know? I did it for purely selfish reasons. At that time, I was going through a lot of identity issues. I know having grown up biracial and having the experience of choosing to be in the punk rock scene and identifying with that, as opposed to my given identity. I had a lot of questions for myself. I needed those answered. So in a lot of ways “Afro Punk” was a therapeutic way of understanding my experience.

I spent of lot time just angry at different individuals, the community at large or the world at large for allowing such a phenomenon to exist. Allowing for me to be 20-something years old and feel like I could tell you anything you needed to know about the white punk rock world, but I couldn’t tell you much about what it means to be black. I think that in doing so I realized that I completely know what it means to be black. I just didn’t know what the stereotype of “black” is. I knew hands down the experience of being a black person who challenges what it means to be black and there are so many different ways that that can happen. That’s what I was saying with “Afro Punk”, in just exploring myself and my personal experience. It’s relatable in so many ways to so many people who have never listened to punk rock and never will and the reason that it’s relatable is because that’s a valid black experience.

Scheme: One of the first things I pulled from checking out your documentary and the trailer for your upcoming film which we will talk about in a second…I feel you are embracing the relevant social questions with your films, a lot of the questions that people have about identity and being black in this world. I feel that the media sometimes, most often times, doesn’t give a fair and balanced offering of what it is to be black in this world and many only see [images of] the “pimp”, the “ho” or the “gangsta”. I liken the poignancy of your work to that of James Weldon Johnson, the author of “The Autobiography of An Ex-Colored Man”, where he speaks about identifying with his “blackness” in a post-slavery America. I respect and appreciate your work in how it attempts to acknowledge the other side of the black experience, in that same regard.
JS: Thank you.

Scheme: The one thing I wanted to ask you, and I don’t know if you are a technical trained director, so did you just pick up the camera and run with it?
JS: Yeah definitely. I had no experience in filmmaking or anything technical. I have always been an artist and I was focused in Fine Arts. Before making Afro Punk I was a sculptor and I was really focused on making it in that “world” or whatever. My ideas of what “making it” was, was a little…I wasn’t clear on what that meant to me, because I wasn’t clear on who I was. So when you see my work from that time, it’s interesting and people gravitated towards it but it wasn’t because of the content but it was more because of the execution, ya know?

“So, when faced with the question of what medium I should ask this question in, umm, I felt like making a sculpture of my experience as a black person wasn’t going to reach as many people and I wanted speak to my audience in a language that they understood.”

Scheme: Yeah, absolutely.
JS: When I started having something to say…I think “Afro Punk” was the first time I had something to say since high school, just in terms of like “this is who I am and these are the questions I have.” So, when faced with the question of what medium I should ask this question in, umm, I felt like making a sculpture of my experience as a black person wasn’t going to reach as many people and I wanted speak to my audience in a language that they understood. When I was going to galleries I wasn’t seeing black people there…First of all, Fine Arts is such a small community of people in general and secondly…I’m just not all fancy like that (laughter). I wanted to speak to people on their terms, so to me I felt like black folks, we watch TV, we watch movies like the general public does, and so let me try to tell this story in a movie.

Scheme: Being that race is a recurring theme throughout your material; do you find that you are equipped to handle some of the obstacles that a rigid industry like filmmaking in Hollywood will present to you throughout your career?
JS: Yeah… I know that for me I just have to do what feels right. I’ve never been one who’s hyper-concerned with becoming a millionaire or having a lot of luxuries. It’s never cool, never feels good to be scraping by and I go through that from time-to-time. It’s also kind of like how I was raised. It’s like I know how to live on Ramen if I have to. Y’know what I’m saying? What’s most important to me is that I’m able to explore the issues that matter to me at the time in a way that’s honest. With “Afro Punk” and “White Lies, Black Sheep”, issues of racial identity and what not were on the forefront of my mind. With work that I do in the future, I’m probably not going to make another Black Rock movie. I’m sure that there will always be a presence of my experience, an alternative way of thinking and characters that represent that in the work.

Scheme: Moving forward, you have a new piece coming out. It’s very interesting and I am sure a lot people are waiting to see what the “White Lies, Black Sheep” film is about. Your Myspace page is boasting some 48,000 plus plays for the trailer alone. You have a great following. Can you tell our readers exactly what you’re looking to address with this movie as opposed to what you did with “Afro Punk”?
JS: That’s a tough question because they are kind of coming from the same place. The analogy I like to make is, “White Lies, Black Sheep” is to “Afro Punk” what “Wild Style” is to “Style Wars”. For me, the things that it does that are different is that it tells one individual’s experience and it gives a voice to a lot of white people, which “Afro Punk” doesn’t do at all. It’s a narrative and it was kind of like a challenge to me, “like okay well I made a documentary and I know what it is to do that. Can I write a script? Can I direct a crew? Can I take this to another level as an artist?” That’s basically what I did. What it says that’s different than “Afro Punk” is questionable. I have been asked that question before. It IS definitely a different movie, presented in a different way of telling the story but a lot of the issues are the same.

Scheme: Ok, ok…I was peeping the actors for this film on your Myspace page. How did you find your cast? I don’t recognize many of them and I’m sure they have appeared in other films before. Can you explain your process in putting “White Lies Black Sheep” together?
JS: Well, with this film, although it is a scripted narrative…and you can’t really tell from the trailer, the film is shot as a documentary. So even though it is scripted, it is presented to look like a documentary. I didn’t want to have any “known” actors, because I wanted it to be as real as possible. Almost with the exception of two or three people, everybody in the film is really that person. They’re either playing themselves or they’re playing a character that might as well be them, they just have a different name. Our main actor and his sidekick are the two people who aren’t really in the rock scene, or promoters or DJ’s. We held auditions like anything else and my producer’s wife is a casting director, so her company did the casting for us. We had a week or two of casting and tried our best to make sure that when we got on set we wouldn’t have to spend a lot of time rehearsing to get it right. A lot of the people in the film I got-and even though they came in and auditioned-I found them on Myspace. I just asked them like “hey we’re doing this movie and you totally look like the person who I think this character is. Can you come in?” They would come in and be like “yeah, you want me to play a ‘ditsy blonde slut’, that’s totally who I am!”

“…when I’m thinking in terms of having no budget and I’m like, “Oh that’s it! I can make a narrative and I can just make it like a documentary!” I can make it as good or as crappy as I can afford and it doesn’t matter because it’s a documentary so you can get away with a lot visually…it’s a lot more forgiving.”

Scheme & JS: (Laughs)
JS: And they got the part because they didn’t have to act, they just had to be themselves.

Scheme: That’s really organic. I can respect that. As far as your inspirations, what and who are they? Can you build on that? Coming from the sculpting world, going into film, they are two totally different medium, so what drives you?
JS: It varies from project to project. I might see a movie and be like, “oh my god this is a movie I wanna make!” or “I can totally make this better.” With “White Lies, Black Sheep” I think it was a combination. I remember when I started writing the script, I saw “Downtown 81”, the Basquiat film. I remember watching that movie and being like, “this is so cool because we’re getting to see Basquiat, and hey there’s Blondie, and wait, isn’t that Fab 5 Freddy? Wow, look at New York! Look at it what it looked like in 1981. Damn ya know it’s bombed out, whatever…!” Watching that, yet also being like, “this movie has no story. This movie has no plot and there is no reason for me to watch this other than all of the people I just mentioned.” It’s just to be present in 1981. (laughter)

I kinda wanted to do that and wanted to capture New York and I wanted to capture the nightlife. I spent 10 years of my life in the 21 and over bar and nightclub scene. I wanted to capture that and because I was a DJ for so many years and a promoter and I was very well-traveled in the “white rock scene” and the “black house [music], neo- funky black people” scene, I knew what I was talking about in terms of aesthetics; what it looks like and what it feels like, who’s there and who is important. But I also wanted to tell a story, right. I saw another movie called “You Are Forgiven” which is directed by Cinque Lee. He’s Spike Lee’s brother. That movie is also shot \as a documentary. It has way less production value than mine does, but it was completely successful in what it was trying to do. I remember seeing that, when I’m thinking in terms of having no budget and I’m like, “Oh that’s it! I can make a narrative and I can just make it like a documentary!” I can make it as good or as crappy as I can afford and it doesn’t matter because it’s a documentary so you can get away with a lot visually…it’s a lot more forgiving. Between the two of those movies I kind of had how I wanted to tell the story, it was just a question of what was the story gonna be. My experience in the nightlife set the stage for what the story was gonna be. That’s probably why it doesn’t differ too much from “Afro Punk” in terms of issues because my experience in the nightlife was very similar to my experience in the punk scene in terms of race.

Scheme: Overall, what type of understanding would you want your audience to take away from “White Lies, Black Sheep”?
JS: I guess a sense of hope. This character is very confused. If you’ve seen “Afro Punk”, the most controversial protagonist was Mariko Jones. It’s because of some of the things she said; the honesty she had with those things that most people know better than to say those things out loud, whether they feel that or not. AJ in “White Lies…” is similar to her in a lot of ways in that though he has a strong black foundation in his family, he’s still an outcast and feels more comfortable around white people and would rather identify with the rock scene than with the black community. It’s his story of transformation. Kind of like that “ah ha” moment that a lot of people have and it’s like “oh wait, what the f*ck?!” What this film is about is that “what the f*ck” moment, ya know?

Scheme: An “epiphany” so-to-speak.
JS: Yeah! I hope that when people see the film, they get an understanding. Either they’ve been there, and it’s like a validation or its like, “oh that’s what somebody like that’s going through?! Rather than hating, now that I’ve spent so much time invested in this person or character, I can see this as a black experience. These people need time to heal. They need to be comforted, embraced so that they can help get them through it.”

“Right now, I am thinking more about things that aren’t specific to race but, are affected by race. I’m thinking a lot about being a man and what that means. What does it mean to be a “real man”? Questioning masculinity and the ideas of it and thinking about “fatherhood” and the importance of it in the world.”

Scheme: Do you find yourself moving forward to other genres of film such as comedy or horror, or do you think you will stick with films that primarily address social issues?
JS: Well I don’t think one negates the other. Right now I am working on a sci-fi script that totally addresses a lot of social issues. I don’t see myself doing slapstick comedy either. What I’m writing now is ensemble cast and it’s not all black characters and there a lot different types of people in it. As I mature, I start to see the world for what it is or my world for what it is. True, probably 90-something percent of my friends and people I see on a daily basis are black. We all deal with different kinds of people all of the time. Right now, I am thinking more about things that aren’t specific to race but, are affected by race. I’m thinking a lot about being a man and what that means. What does it mean to be a “real man”? Questioning masculinity and the ideas of it and thinking about “fatherhood” and the importance of it in the world. All of this stuff is something that anyone of any race could think about, but…For example a lack of fathers in our community versus others may exist for different reasons. Those are the things I am addressing now and thinking about more, because I am lot more comfortable about who I am as a black person.

Scheme: I noticed on your Myspace page for “White Lies, Black Sheep” film there is a very poignant statement that you made stating that “…you grew up comfortably and uncomfortably in both black AND white America.” Do you feel that one race is in particular is more apt to embrace “uniqueness” or the different qualities of people?
JS: Well, ya know…I know what you’re trying to get at and the easy answer is to say, “yeah black people don’t like that shit”. It is very easy to say that, because on the surface it’s true. Granted, my mom who’s white wasn’t feeling me having a mohawk or having my face pierced up when I was 14. It’s not like I was walking down the street and being harassed by white people. Well, that’s actually not true…this is something that I always…well I don’t know how I feel about it but, I’m really gonna go with…I think this is about “class”.

When I lived in a poor white-trash town in southern California, I would be walking down the street as a “mohawked punk rocker” and people would be screaming things out of the window at me, whether they would be racial slurs or just “freak”. I would hear that shit all of the time. Just a car driving by and someone screaming…“freak!!!” It would be some stereotypical carpenter’s truck. Ya know what I’m saying?

Then I moved to New York City and lived in the West Village, which is very gay, so it was already gonna be liberal and I wasn’t getting harassed in my neighborhood, which was mostly white people. Then when I would go visit my dad who lived in Brooklyn, I was getting harassed. I would be in school and it was the black kids who were making fun of me. Well, it’s because people with money feel better, or they’re taught differently. Or they’re just scared and they keep their mouth shut (laughter).

On the flip side, I remember talking to somebody about their experience of being a mixed-raced person. I have heard this a lot, where the white family would disown the couple and wouldn’t accept the child as their grandchild. And the black family would be like, “ohhh baby do you got to get with the white woman? Oh, okay, come here.” They would embrace the white woman as family. So that begs the question is it white people or black people who are more intolerant?

Scheme: It is a fine line. You are correct in that…
JS: So in issues that matter, in the grand scheme of things it has always been black people that have embraced white people…in all of the craziness that white people do. On a “pop culture” level, yeah, black people are very conservative. Ultimately, I think black people in general don’t really know what it means to be black, so they have this one idea. And when you stray from that idea then there is a fear of like, “what, you trying not be one of us anymore?!” They would be like, “yo! If I have to be black, then you better stay black too!” (laughter) One doesn’t have anything to do with the other. I have dedicated my life thus far to advancing black people. To creating an environment where black people can be honest with themselves and each other, yet I’m trying to “be white” because I wear tight pants? What kind of sense does that make?! (laughter)

Scheme: (laughs) I feel you man. I appreciate your candidness. Like you said, your films are platforms and hopefully you can take away some of the obstructions from the vision that some people have about Black culture, whether they are black, white or any race or ethnicity for that matter.
JS: I just got a Myspace [message] from somebody in Japan, because “Afro Punk” was just released out there.

Scheme: Tight.
JS: It’s in the theaters now [in Japan] and this guy just wrote me to say, “yo I just saw “Afro Punk”. Awesome film… Thank you for giving us the opportunity to be ourselves in a culture that will only allow us to be one thing…” You know, Japanese people worry about how other Japanese people look at them. That country [primarily] only has Japanese people in it! They’re not worried about what other races think, but they have similar issues as well. It just goes to show you that there’s tolerance and intolerance in every culture.

Scheme: Yo man, this is some good stuff that you are doing and I wish you the best with the Toronto International Film Festival. That’s what’s coming up for you, right?
JS: Yeah. The world premier is on September 9th and we have following screenings on the 11th and the 13th. You can get the information on www.TIFFG.Org.

Scheme: Is there anything else you would like to say about your work, or even talk about Barack Obama and his run for the Presidential seat and all of the questions that have been surrounding his “blackness” or “lack” thereof. Anything that you wanna spit out there to the readers to let them know what you have on your mind.
JS: Hmmm…I can’t really speak on Obama. I don’t know…Maybe I’ll vote finally.

Scheme & JS: (loud laugh)
JS: Maybe I will, maybe I won’t…Yeah, I don’t know man. I’m not good with the indirect questions. (laughter)

Scheme: (laughter) Cool, you know I’m just throwing them out there or whatever. I appreciate your time and when you get back to New York we have to link up. The last time I checked you out here, you had the screening for the trailer and it was a wild evening for you, I’m pretty sure…
JS: (laughs) I should be out there for CMJ in October.

Scheme: I’ll be in touch and I’ll be following your success along the way, man.
JS: Thank you bro! Thank you very much!